CoffeePods
A series exploring Christian healing in a handy coffee-break sized podcast. Plug yourself in, pick up your mug of coffee, and let's go.
CoffeePods
Reclaiming Divine Healing and Prayer in the Church
Can modern society's shift towards self-reliance be impacting our faith and mental health? Join us as we explore the complex history and contemporary relevance of Christian healing ministries within the church. We reflect on the challenges the church has faced with divine healing, particularly in light of modernism, industrialization, and the Enlightenment. Discover how these societal shifts have changed our perception of God and healing, leading to a diminished sense of the supernatural aspects of faith. We emphasize the need to re-establish our trust in God, recognizing the fundamental elements of our faith, such as the resurrection and virgin birth.
This episode also highlights the transformative power of prayer in healing chronic or long-term illnesses that defy traditional medical treatments. We delve into the role of Acorn in facilitating divine intervention through prayer in the name of Jesus. Hear inspiring stories from healing hubs where local Christians unite to pray for those in need, showcasing prayer as a powerful and accessible practice within communities. We underline that healing through prayer is available to all believers, regardless of their religious titles or theological expertise. Join us as we continue this important conversation and encourage you to share your thoughts and experiences with Christian healing in the UK.
wonderful, we're recording. We're back, nice to be with you. As for coffee pods, yeah, but had a nice break and here we are yeah, I was thinking we're saying we've had a break, but actually it's been really busy, hasn't it? We've had a lot going on it certainly has.
Speaker 1:Yeah but really good stuff. And if you want to see what we're up to do, head over to our social media channels, our website, because then we've been updating, updating you on where we've been across the country and what we've been involved in. But for today we're focusing on coffee pods and we're really excited. Well, I'm excited. We're having a chat with you about this and we've spent some time last week together at the April Christian Healing Academy with a number of guests who are part of the hubs. They're just interested in the Christian healing ministry and we've got our conference coming up, as well as another Acorn Academy in September, and so I just wanted to pull out some of the topics and themes that have come to the forefront, suppose, of those events together.
Speaker 1:Something we were looking at is church history and Christian healing in particular in in the church history, and we were aware that there may be a lack of confidence for the church in this ministry and we've had a number of people saying it's just not happening in my church. I don't know why. You know there's one person who's interested yeah where do you think it has lost its confidence over the years?
Speaker 2:well, funnily enough, it's not a new thing. You know, you tend to look at things that are happening in the world today and and we sort of treat them as if, um, they've never happened before. So you know, we got to covid and we thought, gosh, we've never had this before. But then you look back and actually, through the history of the world, there have been pandemics which people have, you know, tragically died from. It happened before. We're looking in our own culture at the issue of um, of gender identity and ethics and and all of that human sexuality stuff and and you know, sometimes we look at it and think, gosh, we've never heard this before. But actually, if you just read your bible, it's, it's through there, not just in new testament, but also in the old testament as well. So it's it's almost as if we treat, um, what's happening to us as as if it's the only time it's ever happened. But throughout church history, lisa, the church has struggled every now and again, in different contexts, with this very issue of does God heal today?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was wondering do you think part of it is that it's down to our view of God, our understanding of God?
Speaker 2:Oh, great question, I think it is. You know, it's really funny, isn't it? It's a bit like when Copernicus came out with the utterly radical idea that the universe didn't revolve around the earth, but actually the earth revolved around the sun, for which they sort of really persecuted the guy, because it was like what, how can you? And, of course, the the thing is that we have in a sense in our own culture, but, as I say, in other generations too.
Speaker 2:Um, and particularly after the enlightenment, we made humanity the center of the universe, not deity, and actually there wasn't much room for community in there as well. It became about how I feel about things, and so what happened is, when we put humanity at the center of the universe, suddenly God didn't seem as necessary. And so in our own culture there were a lot of things that really started to shape what we thought about healing, but also what we also thought about God, things like modernism after the war, the Second World War, when we sort of believed that industrialisation and technology would answer everything yeah and of course we found it didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's almost like we keep putting our hope in the wrong places. I was speaking to someone yesterday who they said, I did have no hope in humanity, and I thought that was for me. That's such a challenging statement, because I can see God in humanity, but I can also see why you have no hope in humanity. Yeah, that challenged me hope in humanity.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, that that challenged me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, and the truth is I mean without it sounding trite and glib we were never meant to put our trust in humanity yeah, you know, we were always meant to put our trust in god and then be a, a servant and a blessing to humanity, because we weren't trying to get from people what we can only get from God.
Speaker 2:I mean, I love the NHS Lord, bless the NHS Absolutely but of course, the creation of the NHS in our generation, it's sort of said well, the church doesn't need to get involved in this anymore, and so we sort of just went down to looking after your spiritual life, because the state would look after your physical life and and and your medical stuff as well, and and also issues around your, your mental health. Um, we intellectualized faith, we became so smart that we were smarter than god and we really understood the nature of the world. Except, um, jeremiah says who can fathom the human heart? And actually we thought we could, but actually we've realized that we can't, because we now have a whole generation, including young people, who are struggling with their mental health and well-being and nobody really knows what to do about it other than medicate and, and so we've got a whole challenge there.
Speaker 2:um, the church lost its confidence in the fact that god was supernatural you know, um, the resurrection is a little bit, a little bit embarrassing, as is the virgin birth, you know. I mean, how normal can we make god? And I sort of say to people, I got to tell you that raising, rising from the dead, is pretty supernatural. You know, you're not going to be able to get away with that, but it's almost. We try to dumb god down for everybody so that people would go, yeah, that's normal.
Speaker 2:And of course, if you then go around and say, yeah, it's normal, then why bother? I mean, I had somebody say to me um, you know why should I become a Christian? My life looks exactly the same as yours, except I get Sundays free. You know, it's because we've taken the supernatural element out of it. We sort of also we did separate human beings into you're a physical bit that we sent to hospital to get repaired and you're a mental bit that we probably sent to a psychiatrist to get repaired. And then if you've got any spiritual problems, we send you to the priest or you're at a church, whatever. And of course we lost the fact that all those things get together.
Speaker 2:NHS is seeing that now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just going to push that a little bit with the NHS or just sort of any medical care. I suppose is what would you say to people who think that when it comes to their wellbeing, that you go to a doctor only, you go to the NHS only because there were people? We were looking at this at the academy, weren't we? There were people back in history who believed that is what you would do um, yes, it was.
Speaker 2:And and please, anybody listening to the podcast, we're not saying don't go to your doctor, nhs, do, do, do, do, okay.
Speaker 2:But um, even in the nh, they would admit two things.
Speaker 2:They would now admit that if you have a family, relationships around you, supportive, supporting you, you're likely to recover better and quicker that if you have a faith and they don't tell you what that faith is, but actually, if you have faith, you are likely to recover quicker and stronger because those things, although medically not operable on they have an impact on you, your faith, your family, your relationships.
Speaker 2:They will affect how you feel and in fact, there's been well-documented medical research about people who didn't have that and people who did have that, and they didn't obviously tell them they were doing it, but they looked at their results and they found that the people who had these things did recover better and quicker. They found that the people who had these things did recover better and quicker. So in a sense, you know it's not like saying well, I know some people will say, and some even faiths will say, you shouldn't have a blood transfusion, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that. And actually I think the same God that has created miracle, has also created medicine to help us in that same process. So I would say to people it's not either or yeah, yeah, it's very holistic.
Speaker 1:Okay, so then, going to us at Acorn, as a Christian healing ministry, we've been not you and I personally, but Acorn for 40 years, hasn't it ministering in many different situations. How do you, as Acorn's director, how do you see our role, sort of throughout the 40 years we've been ministering?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, you know, some people look at it and say you know, with the advances in medical science, do we really need you? And what I would say is and the NHS would agree that they cannot do everything, cannot do everything, and so very often, um, there are things that you know. We've just done a quick acorn christian live on the man who'd been the pool of bethesda for 38 years, and they would. There is a category of illness called chronic or long-term illness, which is three months or more, which cannot be altered through medication or treatment. It can just be supported and comforted. You know, um, but the even the nhs would admit, as the church does as well, is that sometimes there are things we can't do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, maybe there are some things that we can't recover from, we can't cure um, and actually, in the end, it then comes down to Barraza and Acorn, and this is where Morris Maddox started to the realm of inviting and a supernatural, eternal god to get involved and do what only god can do um through the name of Jesus. And so you know, I'm not trying to put acorns, never tried to put doctors out of business, you know it's. But often what we do get is we get that our role is among the people for whom perhaps there isn't any other option. Yeah, and we are willing to pray and look to god for something that only heaven can give.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. That's a really hopeful way of looking at the sort of things that we deal with. So going forward, do you like the big question, I suppose. But do you see the way that we do healing is going to change, do you think? Do you think we're on?
Speaker 2:a good path, if that's the right way of putting it. Well, it seems to me. I mean people who know a little bit about acorn, and if you don't do, visit the website and take a look at it. Um, you will see that we have begun healing hubs, which are small groups of local christians who've come together from different church backgrounds, but all with a conviction that the God that the Bible says is the same today, yesterday and today. Forever really is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Speaker 2:He didn't have a sort of personality change halfway through the Enlightenment and think, ok, they don't need me, I'll just go off.
Speaker 2:And so, in that context, they believe that bringing matters to God in prayer really does invite God to intervene, and some of their stories some of which on the website, I believe, but also some of their personal stories are wonderful about how God has changed somebody's life even, yes, physically as well as and we're not pretending that we can cure everything and see everything done, but actually we are seeing some things done. And so, in the hubs that we've started, the goal was to train ordinary Christians to be able to pray for people, because I don't think Jesus made this really difficult, you know, I don't think he said you know, unless you're an archbishop or you've got a PhD in Christian something or other, that's the only way you can do this. I think Jesus sent out the 12 disciples. I mean, most of us, most Christians would be shocked, in a sense, what they would look at the, the lack of preparation, but actually of course they've been with Jesus and maybe that's the clue yeah, that we're in his presence.
Speaker 1:Actually, you know it comes together and so, um, it's just ordinary people who are willing to pray and believe that God still intervenes yeah, of course, and we actually heard a really great story this week from our East Lincolnshire hub, where the hub team have been going into a, a church venue, for quite some time now. They offer prayer for all sorts of people coming in and out and, um, they've got quite a regular presence in there now, and so people that they have been praying for as a hub have now started offering to pray for the hub team. Uh, because it's becoming normal for them to go to prayer when somebody is in need.
Speaker 1:Um, and so it's just wonderful to see that.
Speaker 2:I want to see more of it absolutely and, and you know, I mean it's really interesting that I mean, okay, I've been doing this for over 40 years and stuff. Okay, I've been doing this for over 40 years and stuff. But you know, if you know what I mean, lisa, my prayers aren't any better than the prayer of somebody who's literally just come to faith in Jesus and just says can I pray for you? And actually I've seen that happen. I've seen people get saved, you know, become Christians, and just been drawn straight into that moment of prayer. And it sounds as if I'm being a bit sort of blood. Um, it's sort of a bit sort of lighthearted about it, but it's worked because actually it's about jesus, it's not about us yeah, yeah, we just say the words, he does the deeds fantastic.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll tell you what. Let's wrap it up here, because we're going to talk more about what's happening in the uk, uh, with christian healing when we next get together. Um, but do you get to get back to us with any thoughts you've got on this? We'd love to hear from you, um, and we'd love to just sort of bash this out a little bit further, if you do want to take it further. But wes, thank you so much and I look forward to you next time. Bye, everyone.