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A series exploring Christian healing in a handy coffee-break sized podcast. Plug yourself in, pick up your mug of coffee, and let's go.
CoffeePods
The Interconnection of Healing and Curing in Christianity
Explore the fascinating nuances between healing and curing in the Christian healing ministry in this thought-provoking episode of Coffee Pods. Join us as we sit down with Wes to delve into the deep spiritual implications of these concepts. Discover the impact of encountering Jesus the Healer and gain a fresh perspective on faith, healing, and the complexities of Western versus Eastern mindsets. Don't miss out on this rich and meaningful conversation that will leave you pondering the true essence of healing.
all right, here we are Wes again for another episode of Coffee Pods. It's great to be back with you yeah, you too.
Speaker 2:Nice to be back again yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:We've, uh, had a busy month. We've had the conference, um. We've had a wonderful session in September on um healing in passion week. That was really good, um, and the october session is um big questions around christian healing, which is why I'd like to talk to you today, because we've got a big question for you, okay, ready to tackle it yep, come on, let's do it okay, um.
Speaker 1:So in the christian healing ministry, but also, I suppose, just in life, we hear two different phrases. We hear healed or healing, or heal, and cured or cure, don't we um? Is there a difference between heal and cure?
Speaker 2:that's great question, lisa, and you know I've been asked this by um, bishops and things as well, you know, and whatever, um, and I think one of the challenges is that, um, the bible is both clear and not almost at the same time, and, generally speaking, the current thinking is sort of, um, that cure can be like a physical or a clinical outcome, so, and they sort of get there by saying there are some people that Jesus cured of their illness, but that was it, and they went off and they didn't follow him, whereas they tend to think that healing is that, but then, if you like, a deeper outcome of the encounter with, with jesus the healer himself, right, and that sort of seems a neat little package, um, partly because, um, it's really interesting, the eastern mind can cope with ambiguity, and we've talked about this before, of things that appear contradictory, you know.
Speaker 2:So, the fact that jesus could be both a king and servant at the same time, you know, um, but in a funny sort of way, the western mind we want to try and fight, resolve it to one thing and say, oh, no, no, no, you can only have one reality. You know, it can't be black and white, it's got to be sort of something else and so in a sense, with the heal and cure things, a bit like that, lisa, um, you know, because the bible and it sort of swaps the words around sometimes in the same passage and the translations are fantastic. You look at it, you know, um, the uh, nrsv almost uses cure throughout the new testament quite a lot, whereas the nib will do healed, and it's the same word.
Speaker 1:So you know, that's how they sort of think about it yeah, so it almost sounds as though healing is maybe more spiritual.
Speaker 2:Um, for some, but not all yeah, I mean I can see how you can do that.
Speaker 2:And of course, um, the big question is, you know, when somebody comes to jesus, does jesus sort of say well, I'm I, I can cure you, but I'll heal you.
Speaker 2:And actually it's a funny sort of thing too, and I don't think jesus doesn't thought like I think partly it was the response that people made to him and the ten lepers the leper that comes back and says thank you, god. You know, that's something a lot bigger and of course I understand all of that and I understand how you know some people like to try and tidy it up and whatever, how you know some people like to try and tidy it up and whatever, um, but I think one of the difficulties is that we can use that sometimes as an excuse, and what I mean by um, we pray for somebody who clearly needs physical healing. Okay, they need a thing changed and we pray for them. It doesn't happen when we say, oh, yes, well, god didn't cure them, but he healed them because he healed their heart and you know, whatever. And I've got to say, actually, when people do that, I think yeah, that's a bit of a cop-out, to be honest yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:If you think actually what that does for the person that you're praying for, oh yeah yeah, yeah, and partly because I mean, for instance, you.
Speaker 2:I mean you can take a number and some of the words change, so, for instance, you can have the word therapy, which means to um, it's a way of serving therapy. That's the sort of thing so so the way of serving.
Speaker 2:So it could be mean to care for the sick, or to heal, or to cure, or to treat. So, for instance, it's used in um john, chapter 5, verse 10, about the you know, the paralytic who'd been in the portico for 38 years. Okay, so you have the word there, therapio, to serve, you know. And within that jesus doesn't just well, he doesn't medically treat him, he supernaturally heals him. And there's a use of the word that's very different from perhaps the way we would look at some others uh, it can mean to be, uh. There's another word which, if I can find, um er omahi, which means to heal, and it can be used a physical treatment, it can be used to be made whole, to be healed. And uh, acts chapter 9, and maus comes, he's, he's a paralytic, and uh, the prayer goes like that and peter says jesus christ heals you. That's it, yeah. So you say, okay, was that curing, was that healing? And the answer is, frankly, sometimes I have no idea.
Speaker 1:Okay. So going on from that, then, when you've prayed for people, do you distinguish whether you're praying for healing or cure, or does that go through your spiritual Noah? Oh, I like that.
Speaker 2:I've got to say honestly no, because I think I guess it's probably true for most of the prayer teams as well that as you start, you often start with, um, well, you often start with the need.
Speaker 2:I mean, morris maddox used to say, didn't he, that christian healing is jesus christ meeting you at the point of need. So what's your point of need? That's where probably the teams are going to start, and so you know, somebody's got you know, uh, knee pain or whatever, and, and actually that's where you start. But actually it can then um, open up after that and you might pray for them and say, oh, and, by the way, you know, oh, you might in your prayer, be nudged by the holy spirit to pray something that they go, oh, ow, yes, and so there's something bigger going on, um, but I don't sort of, I don't actually start by saying am I praying for healing or am I praying for curing? Actually, I'm praying for a person that jesus passionately loves and wants to meet, and, and I do think that I suppose the answer would be we want the fullness of Jesus for every single person, whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point, yeah, and we've had lots of prayer moments where somebody may have come with a physical ailment and then they they have a moment to maybe just listen to the Lord or talk to our trained listeners, and suddenly God reveals more, um, you know, than they came for. And then that makes me wonder the people coming for prayer do do you think they come with an expectation of being healed or cured, of something? Um, I assume it's probably not a lot different to us, is it when, when we've just said, when we pray for people, we're not separating the two, are we?
Speaker 2:no, and actually you know, um, I'm. It's a bit like going to the doctor, isn't it? When you go to the doctor, you're hoping that, um, your expectation is that you'll tell him something and he will help provide us a solution to that thing. Yeah, but, actually.
Speaker 2:You're not then sitting there saying I wonder if he can guess that I've also got an ingrained toenail yeah, and I wonder if he can sort of get a magical word about it and and do something about, because actually what you're going to do is you're going to bring the need out. Um, so I think when people come, I think they are coming looking for the answer for the thing that's uppermost in their minds and hearts at the time. Yes I, I don't think they come saying, actually I don't mind if god doesn't cure me but.
Speaker 2:I just like you know a little bit, a little bit more peace. I think they come saying can I have both please? And and I think that's that's my thing why do we think that God has a limited amount of goodness to give away?
Speaker 1:yeah, absolutely, I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm a grandparent, okay, and I have to tell you now, grandparents are insanely extravagant and ridiculous, you know. You ask can I have a sweet?
Speaker 2:you say no, I have four you know, um, you know, and and it's that whole thing why? Why does the church think that god is so reluctant to give when he has all of eternity and the richness of the kingdom of God just before? I mean gosh, he's just wanting to give it away. So sorry, I'm going on a bit, but the big thing is heal or cure.
Speaker 2:You know the answer is is there a difference? Yes, probably, but you can have both, you know. I just think you know, I don't think it makes a difference to the people who pray. I don't think it makes a difference to the people who pray. I don't think it makes a difference to the people who've come for prayer. Yeah, um, I do get a bit disappointed when and I understand why we do it when because perhaps of our lack of seeing an answer come immediately, perhaps we approached it wrong or whatever. Then we say, ah, yes, but God was doing something else in a different time, and and actually I was talking to somebody about it, and and they said, oh, you know, we pray for this, but it didn't happen because perhaps God was doing something else and so so he didn't tell you that. They look at me like what.
Speaker 2:I said so, so you didn't listen carefully enough to find out that God wasn't doing this, he was doing that. And they look at me. They say, well, you know what? What do you mean? And I said, well, that's, that's the import of what you've got to say. What you're saying is God was doing something different and he didn't bother to tell me, or actually I didn't ask, yes, or even, like you know, god was. God was doing it in a different time, in his own timing. I want to say, yeah, I understand that, but that means you didn't get that, you didn't hear that from god, you didn't ask. You know and, and so I think partly heal or cure, yes, please can I have them both?
Speaker 1:yeah, I like that a lot, and and something that also just reflections come to mind as you're talking about having both is, um, I think we're very used to just being content with being treated. Um, you know, so we, we treat so many things, don't we like, whether it's with an ibuprofen or something serious, and I think we're just content. Maybe well, maybe, we're not there's part of us that I think is content with that, and then that warps or distorts our image of god of what he will do. That actually you can have that. You can have it all. I've got everything for you, yeah yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:And you know, and people make distinction between whether you know, if, if you could have healing or salvation, which one would you choose? And I want to say what sort of god have you got? You know, who says you can only have one of them. You know, and I do think that, I do think that the church is at times afraid to expect God to act as we pray.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so much food for thought there, just on each little bit we've looked at. And so, if you're listening to this, um, please do come to a healing hub. If you have a prayer, need for healing or cure, do come along and be prayed with and expect the fullness of god, um, when you do come. But I look forward to catching you next time where's and those of you who are listening, and see you soon yeah, bye.